Rising Hate Against Indians in Canada & International Student Program | Darshan Maharaja

Canada's immigration system promises a brighter future, but at what cost? Join us for a candid conversation about the uncomfortable realities of mass immigration, the exploitation of international students, and the rising resentment towards Indian communities. From fraudulent work permits to the "ethnic enclave economy," we expose the flaws that benefit the few while burdening the many. Can Canada change course, or are we destined for deeper division and broken promises?

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Transcript

Siddharth: [00:00:00] We're going to be having a very, uh, interesting and trying to have an honest conversation where about the state of where Indian people are in Canada. If you are not living under a rock and have you have been seeing news Uh, you see a lot of interesting items that come up sometimes are positive And sadly sometimes lately has been a lot of negative Uh darshan here is an author And he's a blogger as well And he also has his own youtube channel where he regularly does commentary about the state of issues that are going on specifically about Indian people and canada in general Darshan, welcome to the show.

Siddharth: How are you doing today? You 

Darshan: Thank you for having me Siddharth, doing well, 

Siddharth: doing well. Okay. So, uh, so, you know, let's get started. I think one of the first thing, so I am generally a guy who doesn't go out, uh, you know, trying to pick fights, but, uh, generally something really happened with me that kind of pushed me today to have [00:01:00] this conversation.

Siddharth: So, uh, I don't know if you have had a similar experience. So let me tell you, and you tell me, uh, how, how prevalent is that this has happened a lot, or this is something unique that happened to me. I was in a cab, uh, going to, uh, from Toronto, uh, uh, to Etobicoke. And the cab driver, uh, was a Canadian cab driver who grew up here.

Siddharth: And he fou he was like, hey, where are you from? And I was like, hey, I'm from India. And he got very unhappy about it. His first reaction was that, you know what, there are too many of you in this country. You're stealing our jobs. Uh, you guys are cheating the system. And he was largely very unhappy about it.

Siddharth: It was so unhappy that the 30 minute ride, he kept complaining about Indians in Canada. And even when we were there, he pointed his fingers like, you know what's it? There's a prison there. So I had a really hard experience and I was like, wow, like things must be really bad that you [00:02:00] know, even cab drivers are really unhappy about it.

Siddharth: So you know, we have been seeing in news, a lot of people have been criticizing things. People have been unhappy with the immigration level. And largely, sadly, for some reason, Indian community ends up in between of it. What do you think is the reason that we have been in the media for some time now, largely for negative reasons, even though many Indian, most Indian people are peaceful, they contribute to the economy, and yet we are at a stage Your reputation is, in my perception, is not doing that well.

Siddharth: What's your opinion on that? 

Darshan: Your experience is, uh, at the same time, unusual and representative of a rising sentiment. It's just that a lot of people have not reached the point where they, uh, want to be so vocal about it, uh, especially in a face to face situation. Online is a different thing, you know, especially when somebody is able to be [00:03:00] anonymous, then you see all kinds of extreme statements coming from them, but in a face to face situation, the dynamics are always different.

Darshan: So, what you experienced was unusual in that sense, but, uh, it is, uh, fairly representative of the, uh, sentiment that is growing. See, the root cause here is that our politicians have forgotten and people in other positions of authority, like, uh, the people running the colleges, including public colleges. You know, private colleges take a lot of flack and it is all deserved, but they are not the only ones who have caused this mess.

Darshan: Uh, they have all forgotten that there can be too much of a good thing. Uh, I was in a, on a recent TV show, uh, with a local channel here. Their main audience [00:04:00] is, uh, Of Indian origin. So that, uh, you know, broadcast in usually Hindi or Punjabi, but they also do English programming. And earlier when we did a show on a related issue, it was in Hindi and Punjabi.

Darshan: So a lot of people on Twitter were not able to follow that. So then we decided to do one in English where we covered a little bit more ground than the original. It had to do with the. The rampant fraud that is going on in the labor market impact assessment, which is essentially a document being sold for tens of thousands of dollars and ends up depriving Canadians of any race, uh, of job opportunities.

Darshan: So you know, I said that, uh, we had built up, the Indo Canadian community had built up a reputation over 40 years plus. Uh, as a model minority where we were law abiding, [00:05:00] hardworking, uh, you know, productive, uh, new members of the society. So both sides benefited from the arrangement, the society in general, and the individual who came in that has been lost at least in, at least in public perception, the image has been lost.

Darshan: Where it is the exact opposite of what it used to be, which is grifters, scammers, fraudsters. Now, the problem is that there is no remedial mechanism at play or at work that can, uh, remove this kind of, uh, negative, if you can call them contributions, the negative contributions of, uh, uh, you know, a select few people.

Darshan: But when I say a select few, that is also to be qualified because when you have tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of [00:06:00] members of the same ethnic community broadly coming from the same country. Uh, taking recourse to, uh, less than honest means to get to Canada, then you can't say that it's the few who are spoiling the, uh, image of the community.

Darshan: So the overall situation as I see it is that, uh, malpractice was pretty much built into the policy. And I have written about this policy extensively. Um, so malpractice was pretty much built into it. And then, uh, a lot of players who sought to gain from, uh, you know, flawed policy took the advantage to the hilt.

Darshan: There was no corrective mechanism at work and even people like me who were speaking against it were called racist. That is the, you know, default accusation that you can level at [00:07:00] anyone in any situation that they are racist. So it has grown to a point where people are completely fed up with this. And, you know, the counter to this usually comes, uh, from people claiming that, uh, opposing this policy, uh, is something like xenophobia or pulling up the ladder behind you.

Darshan: But when you have 10 or 15 or even 25 young people living in one basement, sharing a mattress, I mean, you look at the online advertisements for rentals and they are completely. Out of the third world where one room is being shared by five or six people, things like that. So, you know, pushing people into that kind of subhuman level of living conditions, uh, cannot be seen as [00:08:00] something desirable.

Darshan: Whereas opposing that policy and that phenomenon, gets you marked as a racist or, uh, You know, some kind of a xenophobe or, you know, someone who doesn't want other people to progress. So that has begun to crack. That narrative has begun to crack and that's where we are. 

Siddharth: Yeah, you're very correct about it. I think the problem is, is like, it's like misplaced empathy, like, uh, anyone who says that, Hey, maybe, you know, we have, uh, and, uh, yeah, to continue on that thought, uh, I think I've noticed this part as well.

Siddharth: I think it's largely because you know, we have like an maybe this is not the right word, but like an extreme left wing movement where where you say something which is which is logical but feels maybe mean, but you know that maybe there are uh, uh, [00:09:00] there is a flaw in the system. So if the moment you hit this word immigration and you say Reduce it the other person's what the person hears is that okay This person is a racist who doesn't want to give other people an opportunity And the weird part is that you yourself are a brown person like I am so I do not see a race a supremacist Ideology, uh hidden in there.

Siddharth: I think I think it's a reasonable argument and you know I think the problem is also that the immigration levels are what they are You Largely a lot of people who are for some reason even are making through it. They are just making it by rigging the system. Like when you see people coming through, uh, like for example, I went to school here as well.

Siddharth: So I wasn't born here. I was born in India and I came to school here and I saw that a huge percentage, sadly of the international student, they don't really care that deeply about education. Like they had like [00:10:00] zero interest. If the courses are being assigned, they don't really care about it. They may be like they're doing some separate work on some other side and they just like do the education just for the sake of it And also what bothered me, you know, you mentioned that on a politician side A lot of teachers are very much complicit with it Like for example, if you're a normal student who was born here If you don't do well, they would probably fail you or if you missed a deadline, they won't give you an extension You Whereas I've noticed with international students, they are far more relaxed, like, even if you're not doing your work sometimes, or maybe you get late, they kind of let you, you know, get through it.

Siddharth: And sometimes it was kind of weird, like, it seems like maybe, you know, I read online, is it because of the funding that they get, that they get a huge percentage of people in this international student program, that the money is so good, they don't want to deprive these, you know, like, scare these people away.

Siddharth: From applying here. So i've even uh, [00:11:00] you know seen when I was in school like not that you know They were like okay to bend the rules as long as the certain population of international students are okay and a lot of it even They graduate they work here and I see that even when they're working the paperwork is fake just to Get through the system and when they get through the system, they largely end up unemployed So I think what is happening is that?

Siddharth: You Immigration can be good if you're getting like nurses, doctors, or construction workers in sectors where people need, but I think the large part of immigration, sadly, what we're even getting from South Asia is like people who are representing something. And in reality, there's something else. So now you end up with hundreds and thousands of people whose core skillset is maybe driving an Uber.

Siddharth: Or maybe working at a restaurant and now you have more of that And not of what you were like intended to have like maybe [00:12:00] engineers or maybe a nurse or your health care system is collapsing So that's also is something that really bothers me is that the system is so easy to cheat That like and even the government I think do you think that the government knows that there is a flaw in the system?

Siddharth: And they are still not remedying it because it's like it's an obvious It's common knowledge to almost everybody in this country like how immigration really works But nobody seems to be like, hey, what we should fix this problem. It seems like some people are just rigging the system and then we are getting a lot of people who economically won't survive because those kind of jobs are not there because like how many Uber drivers or how many jobs are there to work in a Tim Hortons because that's a job a kid does on in his summer break.

Siddharth: And now we get 400, 000 people every year or something that are largely for this job. So do you think that why do you think the government being someone who has been here for a while knowing that there are flaws in the system? They don't fix it. It must be an easy fix. Like [00:13:00] why did it just allow it to happen every year?

Darshan: Your question has three possible answers. One is that they know the flaws of the system, how it is being misused. The second answer is they ought to know. Even if they didn't know before when the malpractice is reached a certain threshold, it should have come to their notice. The third and more cynical, uh, possible answer is that it is by design.

Darshan: This is what it was meant to do. It's not that they know about it. It is that they intended to do this. This is, as I said, a cynical possibility. But, you know, uh, there is this narrative of labor shortages, which refuses to die, even though, uh, you know, whatever, uh, amount of evidence that you present [00:14:00] against it, that the labor shortages are limited to very few specific sectors.

Darshan: But taking cover behind those labor shortages, they are allowing a lot of other people to come in. I have met, uh, international students. We're enrolled in some kind of automotive engineering course, but the boys, uh, you know, goal was to work in ethnic media. So I asked him, why, why are you enrolled in this course?

Darshan: He said, that's the course I was getting admission to. The goal is to come to Canada, uh, become a car that is permanent and then the 

Siddharth: Punjabi 

Darshan: dialect. I guess. Yeah. And then, uh, you know, once I'm Pucca, I will work in ethnic media. So, you know, the entire, uh, uh, mismatch between the stated goals and the actual goals is [00:15:00] what is creating the dislocation.

Darshan: There are guys who come here on a work permit, not as international students. On work permit, the job actually does not exist. He just paid, uh, you know, for that LMIA and then, uh, he's driving Uber. So he must have come with a bunch of money for him to, you know, buy a vehicle right on arrival and then, uh, afford the insurance because as a new driver, his insurance would be high.

Darshan: So he must have come with a bunch of money. And, uh, the only economic activity that he's engaged in is driving that Uber. So, you know, there, there is no, uh, monitoring of how the policies actually working on the ground. Now you don't want a police state, but you also don't want a free for all. There has to be a happy medium in between, which is somehow [00:16:00] Uh, on, on two fronts, it is seen as, uh, an undesirable direction to go in.

Darshan: One is the political side and the other is the business front. Businesses are happy with all these people flooding in and undercutting each other and, you know, willing to work for less than minimum wage. Under the table, they're happy, but the Canadians who are getting deprived of the job opportunities and having to deal with all the other issues that, uh, this overpopulation causes.

Darshan: For example, if you are familiar with the College Plaza in Brampton, where there used to be frequent, uh, fights between groups of 10, 15 boys on each side. So frequently there used to be, uh, uh, fights between these groups of international students. The first time it happened, someone caught it on, uh, phone and then posted it to YouTube.

Darshan: This was many, many years ago, probably six or seven [00:17:00] years ago. And, uh, you know, they were students of Sheridan college, but Sheridan college in initially denied this. They said they are not our students. And then finally it was discovered that many of them were, if not all. So ultimately the plaza has had to take the step of installing a gate, which gets closed and locked.

Darshan: There is a padlock at night. So there's only the drive through lane of Tim Hortons that is open. So. These are the issues that residents of the area are not going to be comfortable with. So it's apart from the, uh, you know, job opportunities being shut off. There are other associated issues, um, where there is a very wide gulf between the expectation of the society and the conduct of the, uh, newly arrived person.

Darshan: And there is nobody to guide them that, you know, there are certain ways [00:18:00] of, uh, uh, conduct in this country, because if you say that you are a racist, once again, 

Siddharth: yeah, the bar is like, it's like, no matter what you say on these topics, the racist is racist. It's like the easiest conclusion. And then that person loses their entire life.

Siddharth: Like you can't find a job. You're like kind of shadow banned from everything. Uh, we were at the part where you were mentioning that there was an issue where uh, yeah I've seen that plaza actually i've not visited it. I've seen the videos and they're not good Uh, there's like 10 people from one side 10 people from other side and they're like park their cars and they get into fights So so so because of that fighting did they build a gate so you cannot enter the plaza?

Siddharth: Is that what they did? 

Darshan: It's not just because of that fight because there were many many many such fights including a sword fight And what used to happen was, you know at around eight or nine o'clock all the other [00:19:00] stores are closed It's only the pizza store, the shawarma place, Tim Hortons and Wendy's, those were open.

Darshan: So the parking lot used to be pretty much empty. So they would go there, park their cars, and then just rev the machines, the engines to see who produces a bigger sound. Now, this is a stupid kind of a fun, right? And then, uh, there is a, uh, uh, old age home right behind it. So those residents must be feeling inconvenienced.

Darshan: So, at some point, the plaza put a gate at the entrance, there is only the drive through lane of Tim Hortons, which remains open, uh, otherwise they put a gate and then there is a padlock on it. So you know, nobody can otherwise open the gate, they would have to break a lock. It's not like just the gate is closed and for the entire plaza.

Darshan: For [00:20:00] the entire plaza. 

Siddharth: Then how do people like who opens it? Is there a security card who opens it? Like how, what timings are, this is a 

Darshan: big problem. Yeah, it's, it's early in the morning. They open it because the shops have to open at, uh, uh, around eight, between eight and nine. So someone opens the lock and opens the gates and then the, you know, people working in the shops can come in.

Darshan: They have their own vehicles to bring in, et cetera. So, you know, this kind of a nuisance, uh, is, uh, it's a nuisance and, and you have imposed an additional cost on the people running the plaza. So these are the kinds of experiences that accumulate. In people's perception, going back to our, uh, you know, first point that the image of the community has taken a severe beating because of, uh, you know, incidents like [00:21:00] this, uh, where, you know, I see, uh, online, a lot of ladies saying that, you know, they no longer enjoy going to the park or to the mall because there are groups of these guys hanging around just gawking and them and, you know, Passing lewd remarks, you know, all this is bound to, uh, impact on the image of the community because the average person doesn't know that Darshan Maharaja came here 20 years ago, and the other person who is irritating them came last week, right?

Darshan: For them, we are all the same. You know, there is, there is this, uh, very good book called the book of morphology. Uh, you know, it starts from Murphy's law, which is a one liner and then there are, there's a huge collection of one liners contributed by individuals. And one of them says that when you add, um, a spoonful of garbage water in a barrel full of champagne.

Darshan: What you have [00:22:00] on your hand is a barrel full of garbage.

Darshan: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it doesn't matter what Siddhartha does or what Darshan does or what the average Indo Canadian does. They may be as law abiding as anybody else, as productive as anybody else. As contributing to the society in terms of, you know, volunteering charity, things like that as anybody else.

Darshan: But it is, that is not going to count in the end because your champagne and garbage water has been added to the barrel. 

Siddharth: I think, you know, the, one of the big issues that I have here is that I completely agree with it. Like there are a lot of Indian people in this country who are doing a really good job.

Siddharth: They're adding value to the society. And, you know, there's two aspects to it. Number one is how frustrated, let's say, like in Brampton, let's say there's a large percentage of Indian people who live there. They are frustrated with it. And like, we get it what's going on here. But let's [00:23:00] say if there's a white person living there for them, like the way they perceive it, it's much, much worse.

Siddharth: And the consequences of them perceiving us in a negative life is much, much, much worse. Because it's like now that goes around and that's what every white person thinks and they are a racial majority They are in the positions of hiring. They are in the positions of power They look at us and say oh, wow.

Siddharth: Look at these people. Uh, they all of them are the same. They don't follow the law And uh now we face issues. Let's say someone like you me We let's say we apply for a job or our children or grandchildren apply for a job And we kind of go in there with that baggage that some idiots are doing in a plaza And it's like the negative consequences of this No control over whatever this happening is in international student program is not talked about enough This racism thing is a problem.

Darshan: Yeah, it is. Uh, I mean, you know, the negative stuff [00:24:00] gets more attention than the positive stuff. So, you know, in Mississauga, for example, uh, there is an annual healthy competition between between a Hindu temple and a mosque about who donates more food to the main food bank in Mississauga. I believe it's called daily bread or I'm forgetting the name, but there is one, uh, food bank, which serves as a mother food bank to all the other smaller food.

Darshan: So they, you know, collect all the food and every other donation. And then they channelize it to other food banks who also receive. donations. So, you know, there is a very healthy competition between this Hindu temple and Muslim mosque where they want to be number one in terms of the weight of food donated by their community.

Darshan: Devotees and prepare for this. They are in the 15, 000 pound a year [00:25:00] range, each of them. Wow. Collectively, they are donating 30, 000 pounds of food for the needy, but this will not be in the news. When there is a sword fight in college Plaza, it will be in the news. So public perception is shaped by the negative events and therefore you have to minimize the negative.

Darshan: As simple as that. 

Siddharth: But this is so unfair. Like before you told me, I wasn't even aware that there's an event like this happening in Mississauga where people are, you know, like our people who look like us because, you know, we get the blame. It's largely gets on ethnicity. Nobody cares about like, you know, being progressing at that point.

Siddharth: And we get so much hate. Somebody should maybe post this on Twitter. Or on tiktok or something, you know, i'll make a clip out of this thing and i'll post it Because people need to know the good side like there are good people Within the south asian community who want to add value to the society And we are not some people who are [00:26:00] trying to replace white people Or steal their jobs or you know not have them eat food because Like do you feel that there is a bias in our media as well because I never see good news when it comes to you Know internet on instagram on tiktok on youtube.

Siddharth: Like this is probably the first time i've heard anything good That our community is doing, like nobody posts, posts this on the internet, not even, you know, established channels. Like why do you think that is happening? Do you think that our people are not doing good marketing where they are talking about it?

Siddharth: Or is it just like capitalism because whatever is more, you know, engaging the sword fight is more engaging, so only that will show up is that. 

Darshan: No, no, it's not that. See, first of all, there is a cultural stroke, religious inhibition against beating the drum of something good that you have done. Beating your own drum.

Darshan: So we are told, you know, it [00:27:00] is, it is kind of, uh, imbibed that, uh, you know, if you do a good deed, don't talk about it. So these, uh, both this, uh, temple and mosque, both of them, uh, they don't advertise that they, they have their own internal competition and each will beat the other by maybe a couple of hundred pounds, which at the level of 15, 000 pounds plus each is no difference.

Darshan: You know, and secondly, uh, some of this does get, uh, publicity, but only when it, uh, Suits the, uh, editorial, uh, direction of the media. Yeah. Where, for example, uh, you remember 10 years ago there was this, uh, huge fire in Fort McMurray. The whole town burned down and, uh, the Sikh community in, um, British Columbia, all of them dropped whatever they were doing, stopped their, you know, businesses [00:28:00] and went on a huge, uh, drive of, uh, collecting.

Darshan: Because these guys needed everything, the people who had been displaced from Fort McMurray, they needed everything from toothpaste and toilet paper to everything else. So they, the Sikh community, mainly in lower mainland BC, they went on a, on an overdrive and Uh, you know, even the trucking industry, there's a lot of Sikhs who have that business.

Darshan: So they were running trips to nearby wherever the people of Fort McMurray had been given temporary shelter. And they were running supplies there and that was on CBC. And other news outlets also, but there is a temple in, uh, in Toronto. Uh, it belongs to a sect of Hinduism called, uh, Swaminarayan. They also did the same thing, but they, uh, they did not advertise it.

Darshan: Nobody came looking for the news and [00:29:00] therefore, you know, nobody knows about it. 

Siddharth: I think, yeah, that is also true. I think, you know, uh, beating your own horn. I think religious people are not going to like, Publicly scream about it. Hey, look, this is what we did now say. Thank you I think that kind of goes against the ethos of a religious group And also, you know, i'm also kind of unhappy with some like of these tiktok and instagram channels Like there are some of these channels that are run by people.

Siddharth: I think who genuinely don't like indian people so they look for an opportunity where they can find something that is destructive or You know, something bad happened, they purposely ignore it, and they only put that online, and you know, whatever is perception is basically the truth, uh, the truth can be something else, what is happening, but the perception gets built by what you see on the internet, and there are these some, you know, There are real problems that we have with our immigration system, but then a lot of people rather than addressing those There are a lot of hate mongers who just try to latch on to those [00:30:00] problems and spew real hate Against, you know, just indian people.

Siddharth: I think these channels have no control and I think I know a couple of them and I think it's just Uh, they are also doing a lot of damage. I think you know Someone maybe i'll do some of it as well. We need to show the positive side of things as well You The kind of things especially in the perception of like the mainstream audience changes because right now It is at rock bottom 

Darshan: Yeah, you see when there are thousands and thousands of youtube videos, uh, Showing how international students can get free food from food banks.

Darshan: They get noticed But when that you know temples and gurdwaras and mosques are donating food to food banks that doesn't get noticed Now, this is to say that the bad stuff also exists on the Indo Canadian side, [00:31:00] because you know, you see those videos, those people are shameless. They're saying, Hey, you know what?

Darshan: You don't need to buy food in Canada. It's available for free. And then they show with pride how much they've got from the food bank. And there was a video I was watching. This guy had got. Six tubs of yogurt. Now, he's not going to eat that. Right? I mean, that was just one example. He had got a bunch of quantities.

Darshan: See, this started in November last year. And partly, I'm responsible for it because in, in early November, I went to a food bank that I support here in Brampton. Uh, I had some leftover candy from Halloween and I said, okay, why don't I give it there? So I went there and on their signboard, it said no international students.

Darshan: So I asked their permission. I said, can I photograph this and put it online? They said, yeah, sure. Go ahead. So I put it online and then it blew up [00:32:00] and all the media wanted to talk about was how this is discrimination and racism. All of them reached out to me and I said, no, there is nothing like this. I've known these people for over a decade now.

Darshan: They serve people of all races. This is a specific problem because, you know, I had talked to them. Those guys were just walking in and, uh, you know, collecting as much as they could. And as a result, the really needy families were getting impacted. So they made a policy saying if you are an international student, our understanding is that the government regulation requires you to enough, uh, to bring enough fund to support yourself.

Darshan: So you shouldn't have to depend on a food bank. So, you know, that thing blew up. So it created a negative perception in a broader Canadian society. About Indo Canadian community, one segment of it, the international students. Then what happened was in December, there was another [00:33:00] controversy where the temple in Brampton had put up a statue of Hanuman that brought out a lot of negativity.

Darshan: People saying this is a Christian country and, you know, like this is private property. It has been paid for by private funds. The municipality has approved this, which means it went through a process of consultation with the residents of the area. If you don't like the outcome of a democratic process, then it's your problem.

Darshan: Correct. Or if there was something wrong with that process, point it out. But you cannot say that nobody can put up a religious, uh, you know, uh, religious statue, uh, Saying this is a Christian country. No, you don't either. You have religious rights in this country or you don't, especially when this is private property.

Darshan: So, you know, that was a continuation from November in November. It was international students. Then a lot of [00:34:00] people dug up the videos of, uh, you know, students bragging about how much food they've got from YouTube and they started appearing on Twitter. So that was November. December was Hanuman statue. By January, the international student issue had blown up so much that, uh, Minister Miller had to finally announce, uh, you know, revised policy, reducing the target numbers by 35 percent and all.

Darshan: So after that, it was the rampant fraud in labor market impact assessment, the LMIA. So month after month, there is one issue or the other, which is showing the community in a bad light and sometimes justifiably so, for example, the LMIA fraud, where, uh, Okay. This is another angle to this. A lot of people saying that, uh, uh, the, you know, once an Indian owns a business, he will not employ anybody other than an Indian.

Darshan: They hire [00:35:00] only their own kind. I keep telling them that it's not a preference for their own kind. The difference is that the Indian getting hired is paying him 40, 000, 50, 000 to get hired. Whereas the Canadian is not doing that. Who will pay to get hired? If I want to get hired, that means I want to get paid.

Darshan: But the, the, uh, my competition doesn't see it as a job. They see it as a foothold in Canada. So they're willing to pay for it. So, you know, all these issues have, uh, first of all, uh, you know, peaked. And secondly, to a large degree, they have not been addressed. And that is what is causing the public resentment against the entire community, whereas it should be against the policies and the malpractices.

Siddharth: Yeah, and the part that I don't really understand is that why is the government, you know, not fixing this because you know, this is a problem that even legal immigrants are facing. So for example, [00:36:00] like I am in the process of legal immigration, right? So I've been here for around three and a half years. I went through education and i'm working full time And when I look at the draws, right, there are like 15 000 people with scores around 600 that generally doesn't happen And when I realize so like I am working in a different company, you know, i'm working legally and going through the process There's hundreds and hundreds of people who are on a monthly payment plan Where they money gets deducted from their payroll and on an lmia So you have like people whose real job is just washing dishes And they are sitting with a score which is equivalent to someone who has a PhD in the system, and it's messed up the entire system, that now we have reached a point where there are more people coming to the country who in reality don't have any skill set, and they will largely be unemployed and struggle.

Siddharth: And but thanks to these, you know fraud and you know fake payroll reports and you just can buy [00:37:00] things out and it's not only You know businesses that are let's say indian who are doing it. I've seen many white people do it as well They collaborate with immigrant consultants. They get 40 50 grand and then they you know They get a new house and I buy a nice car and like the businesses here are supporting it And, uh, the policy makers are not ready to fix it and, you know, if they would fix it, this, this, this wouldn't be an issue.

Siddharth: We wouldn't face these negative consequences. It's not that hard to stop people from illegally immigrating, uh, or, you know, cheating the system. The people who wants to fix it. Uh, they don't fix it and they do patchwork things like okay We're going to extend everyone's work permit now because there was a protest Or now if let's say somebody calls out, let's say even if you call out the liberals.

Siddharth: Hey, man, something's going wrong Their prime minister trudeau comes in and say by the way, you guys are racist as hell How dare you criticize like you can criticize things that are genuinely wrong you can see that there's fraud in it and [00:38:00] there's just like People are suffering because of it And you just cannot fix it.

Siddharth: It's such a scary topic. And I think Uh, even i'll have to be careful in how I choose to you know Use my words because anybody can clip anything and before you know, uh, they burn you to the ground Uh, uh, and I think that's why maybe even the conserved side of things are so scared of this as well Is that even they don't want to touch it?

Siddharth: So like the problem is this is a failure of policy You But the blame comes on average citizens like you and me who haven't even done anything wrong And nobody can explain it to an average canadian. You try to explain it. They don't want to hear it Now their unhappiness I get it because they are the one who's getting bad consequences, you know I saw in news.

Siddharth: I don't know like since our immigration process is not good Like you see it and the news was terrible like some in specific Some guy happens to be Indian mixed something in a drink of a lady in a bar and ended up assaulting her and or [00:39:00] then some news comes in some guy in an Uber tried to, you know, uh, sexually harass a woman, uh, in a car.

Siddharth: And when you read these news, this completely destroys the reputation of the community. Nobody will ever trust you if you look like this or you and the policy experts are just not ready to listen to it. Even you tell them that, Hey man, listen, you are ruining lives of millions of people by not holding people accountable.

Siddharth: They just don't do it. But if a white guy does it, they are like super, they make him very accountable. Like, uh, I saw even a news where the, even the judges, uh, you know, when they pass their judgments, they're, they're relaxed a little bit. If you are, uh, the way that I think that there was a guy who broke the law and then they didn't like, Pursue legal action because that would hurt his permanent residency options or something And that got a lot of heat because now essentially we have a two tier system one is like [00:40:00] For different people one is different for canadians and this is like I don't know why they don't fix it I don't know if they think they are fighting racism with it or what they're trying to do but these overly, you know, I don't know if it's liberal policies or Empathy policies or what do whatever they're gonna call it.

Siddharth: I think they are doing more damage now You Uh, than any good, and there's no fixing it. Like having a conversation about it is hard. Uh, uh, and I think it's a nightmare. Uh, even though I have been only here like for around three and a half, four years even, I am feeling it that sometimes when you go out and the way people treat you, it's really hard, uh, getting along because everyone like judges you and, you know, looks at you weird and, uh.

Siddharth: Commenting on the business part. I've seen Chinese people employ other Chinese people too. I've seen Filipinos employ other Filipinos too. So it's not some like racism. It's only in very small shops. Like it's a grocery place or some other You know small business where it [00:41:00] happens I've never seen like some big indian corporation like tata Or you know if ambani or reliance is only hiding brown people that never really happens.

Siddharth: It's it's such a no No, 

Darshan: no where this is happening is in the franchise model. So, okay You go to tim hortons or any of the franchises And the Tim Hortons near my place, I've seen the changes happen over the years, which is, uh, you know, now I'm seeing they're all international students, you know, going by their age and ethnicity.

Darshan: And, uh, even their name tags are handwritten, which shows what kind of a turnover they have of people that it's not worth to make a proper metal name tag for the employee. So, you know, the complaint is very genuine. Uh, you go to even the, you know, chain grocery stores, there is a No Frills near me. And, uh, used to be real Canadian superstore.

Darshan: Then it got [00:42:00] turned into no frills. And suddenly almost all the staff is, uh, of Indian origin. And on the counter, you see, you know, just the young, young people from India, mostly international students. 

Siddharth: Uh, 

Darshan: you don't find anyone often older age demographic. Not even older. Any people, no, not even older Indian people.

Darshan: So something is amiss. Now, you cannot dictate to a business owner whom to hire and whom not to hire. Uh, but the remedy has to come from a higher level where, you know, you, uh, set eligibility rules for who can work and who cannot work. And this is one of the, uh, you know, bones that, uh, the opponents of the international student policy have had for a long time, which is if someone is coming here to study, they should not be allowed to work outside of campus.[00:43:00] 

Darshan: The problem is students were coming to strip mall colleges. So the word campus was an irrelevant concept 

Siddharth: there. 

Darshan: So, you know, they were allowed. Now there is one thing that I have not understood, which was that, uh, the international students numbers were, uh, increased and their, uh, You know, eligibility to work was increased to 40 hours a week because there was a labor shortage.

Darshan: So why was there a labor shortage? Instead of addressing that in the, you know, in the short run, you can take resort to short term measures, but in the long run, that cannot be your permanent solution. So why was there a labor shortage? And especially at this end, where, you know, they are basically delivery drivers for Amazon or Uber Eats, uh, or skip the dishes or, you know, being at the counter, every, uh, fast food counter that you go to or any kind of food [00:44:00] joint, including, you know, Booster Juice or Tim Hortons or Wendy's or wherever you go, you find them.

Darshan: So how is it that there is such a dire Labor shortage and what is the permanent solution to it? Because if it is So unattractive for people to work at then the moment these kids become pucca They will also go they won't want to work here. Then you will have to bring new ones So there has to be a permanent solution to this but that unfortunately is on nobody's radar 

Siddharth: yeah, I think and I think I don't even understand where they are saying things like, you know, there's a labor shortage like It's such a weird thing because when I see videos online, I sometimes feel there's so much labor like I've seen videos where there's a one job that is getting hired for and they're like 50 people standing outside for a job of basically, uh, someone who pushes carts at Walmart.

Siddharth: So when they're saying there's a labor shortage, I'm like, where is it? Like people [00:45:00] are complaining of unemployment in this country. I've noticed that there are people who are willing to work, but they can't find a job. To work in it's like if there is a labor shortage Uh, how is it coming there when you have all these like hundreds and thousands of people who are everyday complaining that they don't have job Uh, it's like it's a very it's it's it's a mismanaged system And what bothers me the most is that we are the one who have taken the entire blame of everything that is going on Wrong in this country houses.

Siddharth: We cannot buy now. It's indian people's fault Uh, there's no jobs That is also international indian people's fault. So like the blame game is so horrible. It really frustrates me Like, you know, i've been to us as well a little bit times and you know indians in america Have a really amazing reputation.

Siddharth: It's like just the opposite Like if people look at you you're indian, they're like wow, this person must be really smart And, you know, we [00:46:00] have presidential candidates and, you know, uh, engineers and surgeons and as in Canada, it's like, it's like the completely opposite thing. And it, it was like. It really bothers me and this and do you think that as you know, let's say, you know, The government changes and let's say this new guy comes in.

Siddharth: Uh, uh, pierre polyvere Do you think there is a solution coming to this problem where? More people I think you know where we can like at least pacify this situation, you know with this endless frauds and you know But other people also get an equal opportunity and this you know That absolute horrible state we are in but do you think it will change?

Siddharth: Uh, what's your opinion on that? You 

Darshan: The possibility is there that it will change, but he will have to work very fast, very hard and without caring about what other people say about him. 

Siddharth: Yeah, I doubt that's going to happen. That's not how politicians function. 

Darshan: Yeah. So, you know, he, he will have to be someone like Conan, the barbarian.[00:47:00] 

Darshan: Yeah. So, I mean, it's an uphill task to start with. For the longest time, my complaint with the Conservative Party was that they were too afraid of criticism. Now, I'm seeing a change with Pierre Polliot. He doesn't care if somebody criticizes him. Including not giving any time to mainstream media. And then when I am at one of his events and a lot of people, you know, when I post about it, a lot of people come at me saying, you know, you are one of his cronies or whatever.

Darshan: No, he has decided that he's going to talk to ethnic media because he feels more comfortable there. And he, at the last of his events that I attended, he said openly, That, you know, you guys often don't agree with what I have to say, but you report what I say, [00:48:00] 

Siddharth: right? That's a big difference. 

Darshan: Yeah. You report what I said.

Darshan: And then after that, whatever reaction you have to what I said is a separate issue, which you also give to your audiences. He said, I like that instead of, you know, twisting my words or, you know, putting it in quote unquote context, you know, the, he said, this is why I like meeting ethnic media. It's a very, uh, very intimate kind of an event.

Darshan: You know, we are all seated around the table and, uh, he's talking to each of us individually. So, I'm seeing that possibility now, previously that possibility, uh, did not exist, but now I'm seeing a possibility where, uh, Pierre Pollier will, uh, at least, uh, take some action to, uh, remedy this, uh, situation. How far he will go, I cannot say, uh, you know, it's ultimately politics, so, [00:49:00] uh, multiple factors may be at play.

Darshan: But, uh, this malpractice area is something that in my opinion, he needs to go hard on where, you know, anybody found to have engaged in malpractice has to face the full brunt of the law because right now there is no deterrence. 

Siddharth: Like you can, I've seen people, like I saw on news where a guy who's smuggling gold.

Siddharth: It was caught and the next day he was in a gym and flying in a private plane or something. I'm like, nobody cares. Like you commit a crime, you're out on bail. 

Darshan: Yeah. Including even the, uh, you know, the guys who were, uh, uh, I think charged with, uh, extortion, they were also out on bail, like, you know, sometimes it feels like bail is a, uh, kind of a default.

Darshan: option for the courts, like no matter what the person is charged with, [00:50:00] bail is supposed to be kind of a human right or something. No, there are times when you judge that this person being out is potentially more harmful to society. Then the harm by limiting his freedom of movement, right? There has to be a trade off somewhere, but that is unfortunately not the case.

Siddharth: Yeah, I completely agree. Uh, do you know this guy? Uh, uh, what's his name? Uh, he lost the election actually to the previous guy. Maxine Bernier, do you know who he is? Do you think that his opinions are far more stronger? Do you think he also deserves a chance or something like because he has a very strong opinion on this one?

Siddharth: And I think he's as compared to Pierre and he I think left the Conservative Party, but I have seen his videos also circulate. Where do you stand on him? 

Darshan: Well, actually, after he left the [00:51:00] Conservative Party of Canada and started People's Party of Canada. Um, At that time, I was doing a talk show on radio and, uh, one of his candidates had invited me to the first ever public meeting of Maxime Bernier.

Darshan: Oh, wow. Yeah, it was an election meeting. This was around August of 2019. And, uh, he was very clear on a lot of things, including immigration, where he said that, uh, at the time the immigration was at around 350, 000 level. And he said that this is too high and he would want it to be. between 100, 000 to 150, 000, depending on, you know, individual year, because each year is different.

Darshan: So his target was 100, 000 to 150, 000. So I can just imagine what his reaction would be now, when we have opened up the [00:52:00] floodgates where, you know, just not the immigration, which has increased from 350 to 500, 000. But also, you know, the back door has been thrown open where we are getting hundreds of thousands more.

Darshan: The total is easily north of a million. So I can only imagine what his views are on that. 

Siddharth: Yeah, I think he's far more stronger, uh, in terms of what, uh, he considers, you know, conservative politics. And I think he will be, he thinks he would be outraged, I think, on these numbers. And also what annoys me about the immigration is that I'm generally a guy who's generally pro immigration, but the problem is this large part of this immigration we are getting is this population who does not understand how valuable immigration is.

Siddharth: And they behave in the utmost horrible way possible. I'm like, you know, Murphy's law, the worst that can happen will happen. And it, it generally happens like, because when I got into this country, I was like, [00:53:00] wow, this is great. They are better jobs. They are better opportunities. You know, you have freedom, but you know, you can openly talk about issues.

Siddharth: This is a great society to live in. And, you know, we should cherish that we got an opportunity to live here and be appreciative of it. And then when I saw the other immigrant population. They don't care one bit like from selling drugs doing cocaine and driving stealing cars nowadays You know the car theft is off the roof is that we're getting a population who has no interest And, you know, respecting like basic, uh, even like basic rules.

Siddharth: Like, even when I was in India, I've seen that people at least still behave properly because they're afraid their family will find out or their uncle will find out here. It's like, Oh, there's nobody to judge me. Let me unleash all the evil that I'm carrying within me. And, uh, and you know, the legal system is also weak and we get like the absolute worst.

Siddharth: So there are economic problems, but then there are cultural problems too. Where you have [00:54:00] like I see you see ethnic clashes on the street people You know Some people are hindus some people are khalistan and they are like just fighting it out with you know on the street with like It says I don't know what it's called in english, but Like luckard like it's like they take like little bamboo sticks and they fight it out And i'm like guys come on like this is like a lifetime of an opportunity That's okay.

Siddharth: Yeah, I was saying that, you know, we should make sure that people, you know, even behave properly and not, uh, uh, uh, completely ruin things. No, it's not 

Darshan: just, uh, the Indian community. See, I have been a very, very open and vocal critic of our. What form of multiculturalism, uh, see sometime ago, I think sometime last year, uh, late last year, there were, uh, there were clashes between two groups of Eritrean immigrants [00:55:00] in Edmonton and Calgary.

Darshan: Whatever their dispute is back in Eritrea, you know, one needs to be pretty good in geography to immediately know where that country is. Because it's not a country, you know, whose name you hear often like South Africa or Korea, or, you know, even Vietnam. Eritrea is generally, you know, not in the news, so you don't, uh, have as much familiarity with it.

Darshan: But two groups of Eritrean immigrants were clashing in, uh, Edmonton and Calgary and I believe third other city also. So I said that, uh, what is supposed to be multiculturalism has actually become multipoliticalism. Because people don't leave the politics of the country of their origin. So they are living here.

Darshan: They are also involved in to whatever degree in Canadian politics, but they are equally, uh, invested [00:56:00] in the country, uh, in the politics of the country that they left. So those battles continue here. And you see that not just in the Indian context, but in the context of a lot of other countries also. So, you know, as a result, what happens is that there is no true integration with the Canadian society and with increasing numbers of one particular country or, you know, community, you get the ethnic silo effect where one doesn't need to interact outside of that community.

Darshan: You know, their employment is with, uh, within the community. Most of their purchasing is from within the community. The only time they need to interact with the mainstream society is, you know, institutions like banks and insurance companies, where also now they are [00:57:00] employing people of the same community to make it easier for the client.

Darshan: So you are once again, you know, Trapped inside. 

Siddharth: Yeah. It becomes an ethnic enclave. I think that's the word they use. 

Darshan: Yeah. Ethnic enclave. But you know, there is long ago, I think almost five years ago, I wrote an article titled Ghetto Economy. The whole, you know, that, that money is circulating within that ghetto.

Darshan: So if you remove that entire component, the rest of the economy remains the same. Which is part of the reason why you are seeing there is no growth in per capita GDP. You may have an increase in GDP numbers in the raw numbers, but if you strip out the inflation and make it per capita, then you, you can't see growth because there is no net output.

Siddharth: That is true. I think, you know, uh, I think this conversation is getting very interesting. Uh, I have actually [00:58:00] good, good, good opinions on both of it. And I'll also have to do some editing as well, because I want to make sure that I'm not fired after this conversation from my job as well. So, uh, I have to make sure of that as well, but okay, that's okay.

Siddharth: Uh, uh, uh, uh, you're 100 percent correct of it. I think the assimilation part or, you know, the part. Where people, you know want to join the mainstream canadian society. There's no incentive Even there's no interest like I don't know Maybe there is an interest people you can live in that ethnic neighborhood you marry within that ethnic neighborhood You do business within that neighborhood and that's pretty much there is uh, uh, there is And so do you feel like i'm not sure where the economic state is of like let's say for uh, this purposes Uh, let's say brampton.

Siddharth: Do you feel that? You And the living standards of people who have been living there increasing, or is it like the same old jobs and they're doing, uh, and they keep doing it? Do you think like, you know, [00:59:00] because anybody who immigrates to a new country, right? You don't want to do a third world job in a first world country.

Siddharth: You come here, you're like, I want to learn, I want to imbibe new values and I want to, you know, become better. Do you think that is improving or do you think it's just, or the, this ghetto economy thing is still, uh, continuing? Because there's not 

Darshan: ghetto economy is stronger. If anything, what is happening is that people living in Brampton were seeing their living standard decline for many years, even before this whole influx began.

Darshan: What the influx has done is put the homeowners in a better situation. As long as they were willing to rent out, you know, their parts of their home, uh, to international students or temporary workers, uh, they, their economic fortunes have increased, uh, but the, uh, but the gap between the strata has increased.

Darshan: So you [01:00:00] have more people on the have not side. Whereas the older residents are doing better.

Siddharth: Yeah, I think that makes sense. You know, because if you had like access to property or you were owning multiple houses, you can put put like 10 people in it and you're making, you have like a hundreds of thousands of dollar worth of business going on. But from an average person's perspective, like that's horrible.

Siddharth: Like, and plus, you know, yeah, yeah, this, this is a nightmare. Like, and they don't, I think regulate that part as well. I think. You can put like five people in a room and, uh, there is no legal consequences, consequences of correct. There's no like law that says how many people you can rent it out. Correct. 

Darshan: See, Brampton is trying to create, uh, some kind of a system that can streamline this.

Darshan: So the landlord would have to register with the city and then the city would get the, you know, powers [01:01:00] to inspect, uh, you know, for the habitability part and not too many people living in the house, et cetera. But the homeowners have once again gone on a protest against that. You know, one thing that, uh, every Indian brings from India to Canada is the more mentality.

Darshan: So there was a Moorja against that. Then the, the plan had to be dropped. Now they are trying to restart it hardly, you know, 20 or 30 homeowners have signed on. Whereas the petition against it had more than 7000 signatures. It's a difficult sell because people have become used to, uh, that, you know, unregulated activity.

Darshan: Bringing regulation in is going to be, uh, an uphill task. 

Siddharth: I think it again, you know, comes down, comes back down on the integration part, because if you're bringing people From a country, let's say when I came from India, [01:02:00] I faced the same problems that, you know, many immigrants face, you know, there's too much corruption or, you know, lack of opportunities and people do dumb things and it kind of destroys the experience of everyone.

Siddharth: So when you move to a new country, your goal is to live with a new mindset that, you know, we're going to be progress. We're gonna not allow illegal practices, but thanks to, you know, this high levels of immigration, a huge population from one part of India. Their entire village moved to another part of Canada, but the mentality and the, the Canadian ideas or what you can say, the Western values that they never ended up there.

Siddharth: And now you have an entire city that pretty much lives in the same mindset that they were living back in India or any country. We have seen Chinese neighborhoods struggle with the same problems as well. And it's impossible to fix it because now it's a question of demographics and mindset if you have more people Who believe in the same stupidity?

Siddharth: You cannot change it either You have to introduce new people or you have to wait [01:03:00] for them to assimilate which is not going to happen If you have such a high population and everyone never leaves that neighborhood Yeah, uh, I think then the last thing I just want to quickly run by you as well You know, you were talking about protest as well You know, we have a lot of protests going on right now in canada as well and one of the big ones that is getting a lot of news is this, uh prince edward and uh, uh, island, uh, protest where a lot of people are actually on a hunger strike, uh, uh till death that you know, they they feel That the immigration laws hasn't been you know Uh included them because apparently, you know lately in the last couple of months they have really Really radically changed the immigration process but a lot of kids, you know Who maybe invested money and and hopes that they're going to get an immigration there Things kind of change and now they're very frustrated Where do you think uh, we stand on this like my understanding is that yes rules can change I [01:04:00] think it's a bit pretty pretty much incompetence on both the sides number one Um Uh, I think first, uh, the government is super irresponsible.

Siddharth: I think they change their systems like every other month. Do you not think that? 

Darshan: No, see work permits are never supposed to be static because the economy is dynamic. Therefore, the need will always be in different areas. There will be fluctuations. 

Siddharth: Okay. 

Darshan: The problem is that these, uh, kids. We're sold a lie that once you go to Canada as international student, and once you obtain work permits, then you can become permanent, right?

Darshan: Correct. This was a lie. And they bought it because they wanted to believe it, right? Then there are all these, uh, [01:05:00] institutions in Canada, including colleges and consultants and, you know, the whole industry that, uh, basically shields the truth from them. So they think that once, uh, and you see, they, I don't know how many of them attended college in PEI.

Darshan: Yeah, I don't think a lot of them did. A lot of them do province hopping. Where is it possible to get, uh, provincial nominee program, uh, placement, right? So they will hop from province to province wherever it's easier. Then they have no intention of necessarily settling in that province. The moment they get PR, they are free as birds to move across Canada, wherever it suits them.

Darshan: So the province is 100 percent within its authority to decide that we don't want foreign workers in certain industries now. [01:06:00] We may have needed them before and we may need them in the future, but not now. So those changes, you know, the narrative being sold is that those were abrupt changes and these kids need to be grandfathered in.

Darshan: No, there are no such guarantees when it comes to work permits because they are always supposed to be in response to a dynamic economy. So that is one part. Second part is that they had, uh, uh, called off their hunger strike. Basically they had given up. But now the hunger strike has started up again, which, you know, I yesterday posted a video, uh, exploring whether there is any political backing for this.

Darshan: And, you know, the question needs to be asked. I am not necessarily saying that there is. And I'm not of course saying as to who is providing that backing because that would be speculation, but you have to explore the question as [01:07:00] to whether there is political backing for this. And as long as that is there, you are not going to have meaningful change in policy.

Darshan: Where the first change that you need in policy is a firm hand saying this is the policy and we are not going to make any exceptions. We are not going to carve out any special categories. So that firmness has to be there. And until that is there, this problem will linger. 

Siddharth: Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Well, I think, yeah, let me address this in two parts.

Siddharth: Number one, that that that's a fair argument to make that, uh, you know, getting a work permit or, you know, entering into a country on an education, it's not a permanent guarantee that you're going to become a permanent residents or a citizen. And I think that is a very hard pill to swallow because that's kind of has been the case, but I think majority of the time, but in the last two to three years, this has changed.

Siddharth: And I think this, the [01:08:00] thing that changed. This has become a very sour, uh, pill that a lot of international students are not ready to, uh, swallow. Um, I also, I think I agree on you with you that the country doesn't owe everyone, uh, you know, a free citizenship, like there's nowhere written that, hey, you will, you're going to get it.

Siddharth: And another thing that I particularly disagreed here with the student community was that it's like a lot of them, even after, let's say they change the process. They still won't qualify because I think they're still under one of those fake lmia applications They are not still legally not qualified for a job because large part of them I wouldn't be surprised that they're doing like making coffee at tim hortons But their paperwork shows them as a manager and they are getting those lmia points So even there like even if you allow it, you see there's another layer looks like peeling an onion first The protest has wrong grounds Second the paperwork is also incorrect [01:09:00] You cannot, so there are two failures, and the third part is, this has become, this is pretty much like having open borders, because if you get any, uh, you should be able to legally qualify, if you don't qualify in Canada, the rule is, you do a protest saying that you're a victim of racism, and uh, the word racism gets thrown out, and then nobody can survive it, nobody wants to touch it, I saw another protest.

Siddharth: I think sadly again, I think now I think I feel I'm doing Brampton bashing which I don't want to do, but they were written Korga Mantu or something 

Darshan: Komagata Maru. And that is, that is an interesting reference because Komagata Maru was the name of a ship. The incident comes from 1914. Back then Canada's, uh, you know, law said that in order to immigrate There had to be one nonstop sea voyage because, you know, aircraft were not in civilian use that much [01:10:00] at the time.

Darshan: So, there had to be one nonstop voyage to Canada. So, anyone coming from Canada, Uh, what are now third world countries would have had to go via some other, uh, port. So it was never going to be a nonstop journey. So some smart person, what he did was he, uh, basically chartered this ship called Komagata Maru from Calcutta, and then, uh, took it to Hong Kong.

Darshan: And then from Hong Kong to Vancouver was a nonstop journey. Now, Hong Kong was a British territory at the time. Calcutta was also within British territory. So the argument was that this is one nonstop journey. But that was denied by the Canadian authorities. The passengers were not allowed to come on land and then, uh, you know, disease spread out.

Darshan: And, uh, I think one or two people died. So, you know, it's [01:11:00] a, it's a sad chapter and, uh, You know, there has been official apology by Prime Minister of Canada at the time. I mean, in 2006 or seven, I believe by Prime Minister Harper. So that is a historical event, which largely involved Sikhs and even the other passengers were Punjabi, although not Sikh.

Darshan: So there was a reference to that. Then there was the religious chant, uh, and I mentioned this in my video yesterday, intertwine religion with politics and especially religion of a minority community in a multicultural society where, you know, you have a charter of rights and everything else, then things become intractable, you know, you, you cannot find your way out of it.

Darshan: So yeah, that was the protest that you saw. 

Siddharth: Yeah. And I think the connection to it has makes no [01:12:00] sense. Like that is a historical, maybe a blunder or something bad happened and people apologize for it. This protest is basically done by people who number one are legally not qualified to immigrate. Number two, they are asking for a car to a policy only for them.

Siddharth: And number three, like, there, there is no case of racism, there is no case of exploitation and the worst part is I think these protests, I think they're doing it and I think they're going to work because the way I have understood the politics of this country is the moment religion, race or an ethnic minority gets involved, that's like a nuclear bomb, nobody wants to touch it, nobody wants to say no to it, Uh political parties can lose election over it and most political parties are also opportunistic.

Siddharth: They're like, you know, what? Do what sells I don't know whatever get them to vote Do you think that voters also care about [01:13:00] it? Like it doesn't make sense to me at one point We have a part of canadian population Which is saying we want to stop people cheating the system And at another point politicians are scared of changing the system because they lose the election Like do you think that people vote according to what who allows, you know, all these bullshit policies?

Siddharth: Like is there a population in our country that like endorses like illegal immigration and all this stuff? 

Darshan: It's not so much endorsing this policy as it is about tribalistic loyalty. To the party, no matter what they are doing. I will vote for that party only. So on all sides, you have that, uh, core, um, loyalists core group of loyalists who will vote for that party.

Darshan: No matter what the election is, of course, decided by people who are not loyalists. Their vote can swing from one party to the other. And [01:14:00] while any election has multiple issues at play. So people are, you know, weighing the issues and depending on how much important those issues are to them or less important, they decide to vote accordingly.

Darshan: But this issue is now intertwined with the economic well being Maybe even the economic survival of the average voter. So they may, uh, end up, you know, deciding their vote based on this particular issue. 

Siddharth: This is horrible. Like, you know, people voting only on the basis of selfish interest, uh, as compared to, you know, welfare of the society, like if we have voting patterns like this, Like the country is going to go down the drain because now this is not only a one time thing This is going to happen again and again and again because we have lots of [01:15:00] people Who are not technically legally qualified to immigrate?

Siddharth: I would say most people are not technically legally qualified Uh, they are on a work permit and this messes up the legal immigration system again So every time somebody protests and gets one you are saying no to hundreds of people who could have been nurses Engineers or doctors and Even they cannot make it because there's a protest with you know, fancy slogans Yeah, 

Darshan: we'll see how it goes.

Darshan: But I think uh, this is going to be one of the key issues of the Uh, election, although they may term it differently, but ultimately, you know, the economy, housing, affordability, healthcare, infrastructure, all of that emanates from, uh, overpopulation and therefore, this will be the, you know, main focus of the next election.

Siddharth: Okay, well, I think, I think this would be a good place to stop. I think that was a really, I think, honest discussion. I think, uh, and these discussions, you know, I think [01:16:00] are not about hatred, not about insulting anyone. I think it's about understanding what issues that flog our country and our society and how we can honestly talk about it and fix it so we don't face, uh, you know, bad consequences ourselves.

Siddharth: Uh, so Darshan, thank you so much for your time. I know we had some technical issues. I really appreciate it. And if there's anything I can do I would say hey guys to all our audiences and subscribers Please check out darshan's youtube page as well as twitter. It is in the description. I'll be adding Please check out his page.

Siddharth: Give him a like and subscribe. Uh that deeply helps and darshan Thank you so much for your time today. Uh, this will be it 

Darshan: pleasure. 

Siddharth: All right. Thank you. Bye now. 

Darshan: Bye